| > Great bunch of threads. I have got a bit behind (working on the Marshall's project and the 24m cargo ferry prototype), so apologies for the messy answers in the following replies.

Wahoo! Post updates and pics! Or we will hate you forever!

| > Honestly, that's very sexy. Closed, light, and very simple.
| >
| > Does this even need internal lines? Can they not all just be external?
| > Address's the maintenance. Show off how stupid simple it is?
| >
| No problem with external. They could also be removable, with a pin through the straps to keep them in place.

The straps are the glass that wraps both beams and guides them/keeps them tight?

You mean the straps are removable, right?

And we need the straps removable so the beams tips can bury deep when the hulls are compacted? So we can leave the straps on the beams?

When expanding, pin the straps in place when the beam tips/pin holes become visible, right?

| > Can 2 almost 12' beams that go almost to the outside of each hull get us to ~22’? If I did the maths right.
| > Can those beams get good strong bury to each hull and still let the other beam slide in that deep?
| >
| Not really. The lower oney cannot (easily) go through the hull. The holes to do so need to be sealed and it is a highly stressed area so reinforcement needs to be considered. If the top beam was flush with the deck, that side would not be a problem.

So, assuming lee is upper, and ww lower, for the sake of clarity, not set in stone...
If the lee beam had a glassed in hollow beam under it, which penetrated the lee hull, would that not be more reenforcement than just skins?

If the lower (ww) beam tip can slide in, or through said hole, we good?

Assuming unpinned strap, right?

On the ww hull assume lee beam is on the deck?

| >
| > Perhaps need a 3rd beam to get the width to 25'+?
| >
| Can add as many as you like. ;-)

Ya, but as we add a beam, we add width potential. Then, we add the potential for more length. Then we are looking at over length permits. Then we are all building 70' trailerables with 13' removable/foldable bows. MADNESS!

But, if top to bottom, lee, middle, ww, is the ww beam kinda low?

Is it worth it to add a 3rd beam for the extra width?

| > Lowest beam to windward, and highest to lee?
| >
| Yes. Unless you want the tender to stay attached.

That's not really gonna be possible, right? If you bring the ww hulls lee side to the ww side of the lee hull, there is no room for a tender, right?
Did i miss something?

| > Perhaps if we get the beam lengths dialed in, we can get a final length, then we can start seeing how the parts rack and stack?
| >
| It won't make any difference. The straps need to be a tight fit when sailing and strong enough to resist all the loads. Another option is to use the rigid straps only for opening/closing and use ratchet straps to lock them together when sailing.

Ratchet straps. Nice. Not sure if they are lighter then screws, but I think so. Commodity item. Spreads the force naturally. Great idea Rob.

Can we just use the loosened ratchet straps in place of the glass straps for the in-out too?

Perhaps the glass strap becomes a ratchet strap with glass and UHMW sliders/guides/flat force spreaders under the web?
Loose it's a guide, clamps tight for squeak free sailing?
Is that reasonable?

| > | Complicated indeed, but the pros and cons of each are pretty clear. As are the compromises that need to be made.
| >
| > Are there any we have not addressed? Or not addressed enough?
| >
| > The telescoping seems able to get good structural bury and great extension very simply and lightly.
| >
| > Mike, et. al. Any thoughts?

Mike, where you go?

| > | > So lets just assume tillers?

All sold on this? Let's call it solved?

| > | > Any ideas?
| > | >
| > | Several, but they are all compromises. Need to decide what is important...
| > | If you are opening and closing the boat either side of a 2 hour sail after work, the requirements are different to taking it apart to take it home once a season.
| >
| > Tell me more.
| >
| > A third target is the cruiser who wants a mono slip, perhaps? Call that guy Arto?
| >
| > So, if Mike is a once a season guy, Arto is a cruiser, and I am the 2 hour guy. How does optimizing for me tick the other two off?
| >
| Mostly it is about looks, ease of build and practicalities. Mike would be better with one piece demountable beams. Arto will need to consider what goes between the hulls and you need to organise your trailer.

As I say, I know nothing, but here goes...

Arto needs a slip config.
Mike wants slip ability options, especially if mostly free and quick.
I think I do not want, but I know nothing, so probably I do, but don't know it.

But IF the marina configuration is much the same as the trailer configuration, at some level, then perhaps solving/improving one does the other too.

All of us need to think about what goes between the hulls. Where the tender goes is a trailer and a marina problem. All of us need a reasonable trailer length. Just sitting the tender behind/in front the folded boat makes the trailer long. Perhaps over Mike's tree scrap length.

Perhaps the 3 configurations have a lot in common?

| > Or just make the benches removable as boxes, to keep the storage? Assuming they are not a structural part of the lee cabin wall.
| >
| They aren't, but they have to be put somewhere, as does the tender and anything else removed.

| > Trailering, perhaps the bench boxes and toy box may stack under, fore, and aft of the boat. Put the T40?? On its side impaled on its lifts by the gin poles or mast stubs?
| >
| Lots of options. Would need to draw it out and see what fits where.

Bottom of this message I had a few updated ideas.
https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/harryproa/conversations/messages/13686

Summary is: strap boxes to tender and hang tender off aft beam when marina/trailering. Can motor with tender.

Thoughts?

| > If you are in a slip and you got a T40?? where do you put it? Can you just tie it behind your boat? Will it fit under? Swamp it, and slide it under in the slip? Same with the boxes?
| >
| Swamping is not viable.

Lets never speak of it again.

| Under would work if it was antifouled.

Anti-fouled! Suggests long term slippage? Does a fouled boat, if dried out, defoul itself? Mostly?

Is it much pain to step/raise the cabin floor to accommodate the tender when folded?

| Tieing it behind might upset people.

Because over long in the slip?

| Using the boom as a crane and leaving it on deck is probably best.

What deck? Folded to 12' the cabin door is at the lee hull, right? Perhaps set it on the cabin roof?

| > Will the boxes float under the boat? Perhaps not the toybox.
| >
| Floating gets messy pretty quickly. Stacking on deck, or perhaps on the marina arm works better.

Is putting things on the marina arm fair play?

Does that not suggest specific slip needed?

| > I hope I didn't embarrass myself too much.
| >
| No more than usual. ;-)

Well, thanks? lol