Subject: Re: [harryproa] Swells in open ocean
From: Dennis Cox
Date: 7/26/2010, 7:59 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

I guess I'm one of the culprits stirring the pot. 
 
I'm not looking to do an all out racer.  This is purely my design philosophy for my one-off boat.  I'd like some fast transits.  I'd like to do some races if I happen to land myself in a friendly island race.  I don't have any intention of getting into races where competitors are getting points toward some championship or are willing to maliciously cut across my path to force a shunt.  I wouldn't want to do any open ocean, multi-day races (TransPac, Bermuda, etc)   I also want a con-da-frik'n-minium, so my weight will not be competitive.  I ended up with a 60' (18.3m) lee hull.  The accommodations drove the size more so than the outright speed.  http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/search-prefect-proa-33468.html  I enjoy the theoretical work using Michlet and now I'm tinkering with Flotilla thanks to Rick.  Do I really think I'll see 30 knots?  Nah!  It doesn't even take into account rudder/daggerboard drag much less a dozen other things.  I think I'd have the biggest Cheshire Cat grin you ever saw, if it touches 20.  Beating a GunBoat in a race would be my biggest goal.
 
Dennis


From: Paul Wilson <opusnz@yahoo.ca>
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 11:01:05 AM
Subject: [harryproa] Swells in open ocean

 

I have found the recent threads very interesting and thanks to all for
their contributions. One thing has been bothering me though. Talk has
been of large proas at high speeds. I assume these are designs for open
ocean. 12m, 15 m and speeds of 25 to 30 knots have been mentioned.
This seems unrealistic to me and would be designing for an ideal of high
wind with flat water and no waves. Having sailed offshore, I know that
a 10 to 15 knot trade wind that has been blowing for a few days normally
kicks up a 2 to 3 meter swell. Going 25 knots on a 3 meter swell with a
light boat could launch you into the air. These waves are what limit
your speed as their tops crash into beams, superstructure, or you. If
one is designing an offshore cruising or racing boat, wouldn't it be
better to design for max efficiency at a more realistic speed? Say 10
to 15 knots for a fast, offshore multihull? This seems more realistic
to me and may result in a boat that was more all round, easier to keep
"in the groove" and possibly faster.

As an illustration, I have a friend currently sailing from Galapagos to
Marquesas. His average speeds have been between 6 and 7 knots on a 35
foot catamaran that in the same conditions in flat water would probably
be 12 knots or better. The pounding and smashing if he pushes the boat
is always so bad that he has to limit the speed. On my heavy 36 foot
monohull, I have made passages in the same conditions in less time, due
to the fact that I can push the boat harder without beating myself or
the boat up. Everything says the multihull should be much faster than
my heavy monohull, yet I know offshore, the reverse is true.

Something to think about.

Cheers, Paul

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