Hi,
Rudder shafts are 5.3m from the mast, half way from the beam to the bow.
Havent measured but checked from the photos. .
The front rudder was down all the time. The rudders are still pretty
sticky to move up and down when sailing. I mainly used the front rudder
for steering, except when going totally down wind. The problem arises
when bows submerge. Everything is OK if bows just cut the surface.
Yes we can sail away at 90 degrees if we sheet in slowly. When we are
going at 4 knots we can sheet in the rest.
The reason for two daggerboards is to be able to control the sailing all
the time and adjust lateral balance without touching the rudders.
I also want to cut the rudders to 1.0m, so they could be retracted
completely, now there is 20cm left outside.
There are lots of narrow waterways and upwind sailing here around. So
all foil area is effectively needed. Thats why symmetric Speer sections.
When cruising I would use the smallest area needed. Single daggerboard
is not possible because of mast and structures.
Single daggerboard on the ww side outside the hull is an alternative. It
would create more drag than single thru hull board.
In my opinion two thin and smooth foils would be more effective and
versatile and cause less drag than fixed keel under the hull.
Regards,
Arttu
Hi Arttu,
>
> How far are your rudders situated from the mast?
> When sailing downwind fast and near broaching, was the front rudder up?
> Can you sheet in and sail away at 90 deg. to the wind in normal conditions?
>
> regards,
> Rudolf
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: arttuheinonen@
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: BD sailing
>
>
> Hello,
>
> We have two rudders 0.5x1.2m. We were able to sail over the Baltic and
> back home with our setup. Upwind sailing was possible and the more wind
> (speed)the easier it was. With both sails up we were able to sail higher
> up to the wind. Upwind sailing with main only was easier when reefed,
> better sail area/foil area ratio. The angle was poor when reefed, but
> shunting was no problem. We had wind about 25knots.
> Fast downwind sailing was also a bit uncomfortable. When the bow
> submerged the stern tried to wander sideways. The helmsman had to stay
> alert.
> Light wind shunting is tricky.
> I am going to add performance and make life easier by building two
> daggerboards 1.5x0.5m symmetric sections. They will be situated +-1.8m
> from the mast next to hatches. They are a going to be canted outwards
> going thru the hull bottom in the center line. The daggerboard case will
> make stairs down in to the hull.
> Bulkheads for safety are needed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Arttu
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > The second time we raised the jib I purposely kept sailing the same
> course -close reaching- and didn't change the sheeting angle.
> > Speed was something like 8 knots. The jib was hoisted while sailing.
> The power and speed increase was noticeable, and along with it the boat
> went out of control.
> > I think power of the sail will always push the bow down causing the
> bow to be the deepest part of the hull.
> > Maybe the bow acts as a pivot in that situation and causes the boat to
> turn upwind without lots of leverage at the other end?
> > Another thing I noticed was that the front rudder had load on. In the
> old set up the front rudder was hanging loosely in it's casing. We were
> able to lift it at speed which I remember well as I was surprised by
> that.
> >
> > regards,
> > Rudolf
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: heinrich_meurer
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:35 PM
> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: BD sailing
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I was wondering why the problem increased with the jib put up. One
> would expect the opposite. So what you are saying is that when you put
> up the jib the bow gets more depressed while sheeting in moving the
> lateral trim of the hull forward? Would the cure then possibly be to
> sheet in very slowly to keep the bow up? Did the luffing become more
> managable once you were up at speed?
> > Heinrich
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The things that changed are :
> > > Distance rudders from centre was 4600MM, now 3800MM. Also they moved
> sideways 800MM to ww.
> > > Fitted the electric drive with batteries weight max.
> 120kgs.(probably less)
> > >
> > > Rudders are smaller but the other setup worked also with blades
> partially raised.
> > > Also we sailed with only two of us, with the old set up there was no
> problem sailing with six persons sitting in the cockpit, so well to ww.
> > >
> > > Thanks Robert, yes I was thinking just that. I am going to try to
> temporarily fix an old rudder blade in the middle as a dagger board. I
> think the bow down attitude of the boat with full sail up might be the
> cause.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > Rudolf
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Rob Denney
> > > To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [harryproa] BD sailing
> > >
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > Very disappointing. Could you make a list of the things that have
> changed, please, so we can try to figure out the problem. eg, sails,
> rudder location, rudder size, weight in ww hull, differences in water
> drag, etc etc.
> > >
> > > Ta.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Rudolf vd Brug <rpvdb@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Yesterday we have been out sailing BD with the new rudder set up.
> > > Wind about 16 knts. After hoisting the sails we pulled the sheet and
> the boat luffed.
> > > Pulled the other sheet to get the right bow pointing downwind and
> sheeted in again, the boat luffed.
> > > After a few attempts I descided to take the jib down, and we got her
> going.
> > > Rudder angle was about 10 deg. so no high speeds.We tried shunting
> and we had to get BD going really downwind to be able to build up enough
> speed to keep her from luffing straight into the wind.
> > > After some time we set the jib while sailing on a close reach. Once
> the jib started pulling the boat luffed into the wind the rudder only
> putting the brakes on.
> > > We took the jib down and proceeded without it. The front rudder has
> to be pulled up at least half way to keep the rudder angle 'down' to the
> 10 degres I mentioned. Front rudder all the way down makes it hard to
> keep the boat from luffing into the wind.
> > > We also tried the front rudder tilted out of the water entirely
> which made made for very nervous steering behaviour.
> > > Returning to the marina we were very disapointed.
> > >
> > > As we brought BD to the marina after the launch we had to negotiate
> some bridges and a lock all less than
> > > 1 metre wider than the boat. I noticed that steering was less
> precise compared to the old set up. Reaction is slower and seems more
> abrupt, probably because the late reaction causes one to turn the rudder
> further than usual.
> > > Reactions please,
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Rudolf
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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