Hi Rob,   What is the diameter of the tube in the hull for the harry ast? What cloth covering? Is the palstic pipe basically the same thing as elementarry?   Doug   PS maybe I could get you to print the 3DM files  (just on a4) and I 'll pick them up. --- On Mon, 9/6/08, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail.com> wrote: From: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Trailer proa To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Date: Monday, 9 June, 2008, 11:27 AM G'day, The shaft in the rudder is rectangular, the shaft through the beam is square, or else the beam has to be too wide.  Flip over tiller is no problem, but steering with it may be as it gets confusing.  Should be a pretty rare occurence, so no big deal.  Not sure that having it over the tramp while sailing is a good idea, as it may get sat on. regards, rob On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: Considering loads, wouldn't it be better to make it more oblong? Rectangular certainly makes it easier to make straight and to attach a rudder shaft compared to round. I prefer this system as the foils can be tucked under the beams when going through waves. I was thinking about having the tiller on a horizontal pivot so that it can face aft coming and going Robert --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@.. .> wrote: > > G,day, > > The shaft is square, so the line can be lead up through a pulley/fairlead > on the front of the rudder shaft and through the bog which makes it round. > Pull up should not be necessary as drag and buoyancy should do the trick. > May need a line or piece of shock cord to get it clear of the water. > > Starting to feel a little irritated with myself that I spent a couple of > grand on engineering for the two pin kick up system! KISS! > > Regards, > > Rob > On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote: > > > If the shaft was a bit thicker with a hole down the centre to allow a > > pull down chord, I can't see any problem having a similar set up to > > Harriette. If the bearings were above the structure of the the top > > plate, there would only be a fairly small hole in the structure. > > I was considering using some polypipe down the centre with a 90 > > degree hard plastic bend added at the point where the end of the lever > > arm meets the shaft. This should provide a low enough friction to pull > > the rudder down and it could then be cleated off on the tiller, or > > even the tiller extension. Kicking up should be almost automatic. > > It may be possible to have a lift up chord as well, providing the > > rudder stayed with tiller steering. > > Robert --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<harryproa%40yahoogroups. com.au>, > > "Rob Denney" > > > > <harryproa@> wrote: > > > > > > oops, try this one. > > > > > > Robert, > > > Good thinking. Also makes the beams 10% lighter (the weight will be > > in the > > > hull instead, so no nett gain) so easier to carry about. I will > > change it > > > when I see how the harriette rudders work and whether they will work > > on the > > > bigger boat. > > > > > > regards, > > > rob > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:54 AM, captian_rapscallion < > > > captian_rapscallion @> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Could I take a look at the Rapscallion doc? it seems to be the Kate > > > > doc in the folder > > > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au <harryproa%40yahoogroups. com.au> > > <harryproa%40yahoogroups. com.au>, "Rob > > > > > > Denney" <harryproa@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > G'day, > > > > > > > > > > Trailer proa renderings are in the Files section under Maxi Trailer > > > > sailor > > > > > > > > > > 'The ultimate trailer sailor/racer cruiser' is the requirement for > > > > > this boat. As fast as possible, with standing headroom, minimal > > > > > galley, double bunk and a toilet. Trailering is mostly for the 5 > > > > > mile trip from home to ramp, but occasionally further afield. > > > > > > > > > > Windward hull is 7m.24', leeward hull 12m/40' > > > > > > > > > > The boat is 6m/20' wide in sailing trim, but telescopes to 3.7/12'4" > > > > > wide for marinas and 2m/6'8" wide on the trailer. This is easily > > done > > > > > with composite beams. The mast and boom travel in cradles on the lw > > > > > hull deck, the beams under the cockpit. The trampoline is in two > > > > > pieces split fore and aft. Each piece has a 25mm dia carbon or alloy > > > > > tube sitting in hooks on the hull and the beams. In the middle is a > > > > > thicker tube for each piece. When telescoping for marina use, the > > > > > lee hull tramp is lifted out of it's hooks and as the hulls slide > > > > > together it slides over the windward tramp, so you can still walk > > > > > across to the other hull. For light air races, it can also be sailed > > > > > like this. For trailering, the tramps and the telescoped beams are > > > > > quickly and easily removed and stored under the the cockpit. > > > > > > > > > > The mast is telescoped to 9.2m for stepping/unstepping . A 5m long > > > > > pole, with a 4;1 blocjk and tackle on one end is inserted into a > > hole > > > > > in the deck next to the mast. The heel sits in a cup next to the > > mast > > > > > step. The blocks are tied around the mast at it's centre of gravity > > > > > approx 3.7m from the base and it is lifted up until the heel is > > above > > > > > the deck, then guided into the top bearing and lowered into place. > > > > > Unstepping is the opposite. Very quick and very safe. > > > > > > > > > > The reefing drawing shows sail areas incl mast of of 47 sqm/505 sq', > > > > > 35 sqm/376 sq' and 22 sq m/236 sq m. Storm sail is 2 sq m/22.5 > > sq' of > > > > > mast. Lots of sail up high for the light stuff, no drag or weight up > > > > > high for the heavy. > > > > > > > > > > Weight in sailing trim is 420 kgs and the payload 330 kgs/726 lbs. > > > > > Overload could be as much again without it affecting anything > > but the > > > > > speed. > > > > > > > > > > Construction method for the hulls is partially glassed panels joined > > > > > and compounded, with flat panels for the rest. > > > > > > > > > > Bruce number empty is 2.34. With normal payload, 1.9. Hull flying > > > > > wind speed 10 knots, lower with the crew sitting to leeward. > > > > > > > > > > Inside the ww hull is a double bunk at one end and the galley and > > > > > toilet at the other. The galley space is large, but not all of it is > > > > > accessible. It will probably end up being accessed through a deck > > > > > hatch and used for storing fenders, etc. > > > > > > > > > > The cockpit is sheltered with a folding pram hood which will ensure > > > > dry sailing. > > > > > > > > > > The rudders could not be mounted on the telescoping beams, so are in > > > > > daggercases in the hull. Rather than use long tiller extensions, > > > > > there is a short athwartships tiller (magenta in the renderings) > > with > > > > > an extension (green) attached to the tiller and a car on a track on > > > > > the deck. The car is pulled fore and aft by lines running to > > > > > whipstaffs (vertical tillers, red) on the leeward end of the > > cockpits. > > > > > The lines are cleated on the whipstaffs so can be released and > > easily > > > > > replaced and retightened when the rudders are lifted and lowered. > > > > > This is a far easier system than wheel steering where the lines must > > > > > be released off the quadrants to raise the rudders. > > > > > > > > > > Comments, suggestions, criticisms welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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