-I reckon your A frame is a much less stressed solution,
Robert
-- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>
> Just to let you know the smaller blue easyrig is about 25-30%
> smaller than orange crab claw. The large claw seemed to balance
> better on the proa better than the smaller esyrig with same size
> boards.
>
> Nothing wrong with larger boards. Different solution to the problem.
>
> Hate to bring this up specially on here but the only proa I know of
> using modern stayed mast Is Russell Brown. They seem to work. Not
> tring to steer up the hornets nest.
>
> What I was thinking for the staysail rig Is having two sails at each
> end on off set planes one closest to bow inline with main hull
> second sail back from bow set further to windward off center line
> from hull.
>
> But I'd rather use my Aframe and double Aframe rig.
>
> Todd
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> wrote:
> >
> > It seems that the crab claw moves faster in video
> > showing balestron and crab claw side by side. Not big
> > difference but that's how it looks on the video.
> >
> > I agree totally that proa rig needs new thinking. All
> > traditional solutions have their problems. Combination
> > of some features may bring the best solution.
> >
> > I agree that staysail only rig has a lot of merit in
> > proa. Off the self products, easy to use furling
> > sails, good power are all very good properties.
> > Structurally the mast to windward rig will produce
> > large forces on the boat. Heavy compression and
> > bending forces will be the result, which will require
> > stronger structure. Is it worth it? I don't know.
> > Experiments will tell.
> >
> > Arto
> >
> >
> > --- tsstproa <bitme1234@> wrote:
> >
> > > In the video
> > >
> > >
> > http://youtube.
> > >
> > > The easy rig and claw on harry style model was same
> > > day testing.
> > > Test in roughly the same wind conditions. Notice at
> > > the end of video
> > > a little larger sail on a deep vee hull form proa ,
> > > speed, wake and
> > > the freeness in which it truly flies through water
> > > and wind.
> > >
> > > I think in seeking super high pointing ability at
> > > wind speed or
> > > better from a more traditional western rig ex. sloop
> > > type or similar
> > > you're going to need a large high buoyant LWH. At a
> > > size equivalent
> > > as large as or larger than a traditional Pacific
> > > Proa main hull. The
> > > only way I see getting around this is with a none
> > > traditional rig in
> > > both senses. Not pacific tradition or western
> > > tradition. Not saying
> > > this is a solution but just my attempt at the
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > http://youtube.
> > > http://youtube.
> > > http://youtube.
> > >
> > >
> > > In the clips above the approach may seem complicated
> > > and not proven
> > > to heavy etc.... all the above and more from
> > > skeptics. But an easier
> > > solution that some maybe able to wrapped the head
> > > around is the mast
> > > aft concept and having stay sails. But instead of
> > > mast aft, have
> > > mast to weather on a proa configuration set at
> > > determined distance
> > > with stay sails at each bow on roller furling. You
> > > don't get the
> > > flexibility of the Aframe rig but close enough and
> > > with proven
> > > equipment all ready on the market. Except possible
> > > sail design for
> > > stay sails on this type of craft.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > Hakkarainen <ahakkara@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Todd,
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > > But on to the subject.
> > > >
> > > > I fully agree with your ideas on placing rig CoE
> > > > forward to make sail balance better. The reports
> > > on
> > > > lot of pressure on aft rudder have made me think
> > > of
> > > > alternative rigs to easyrig. The crab claw and
> > > gibbons
> > > > seem to work well in smaller proas being effective
> > > > rigs and placing sails forward to bow, but scaling
> > > > them up to harry or visionarry size seems quite
> > > > problematic.
> > > >
> > > > All my sailing experience tells me that boat
> > > should be
> > > > well balanced. Easyrig seems very easy to handle
> > > but
> > > > the rig/rudders combination doesn't seem balanced
> > > to
> > > > me. Reports on the heavy pressure on aft rudder
> > > > indicate that this is the case. Having better
> > > balance
> > > > should also help to improve performance by
> > > reducing
> > > > the forces needed to counter the forces caused by
> > > > unbalance between sails and foils. In greater
> > > speeds
> > > > this could be quite a big factor.
> > > >
> > > > What worries me regarding the crab claw and
> > > gibbons is
> > > > lack of knowledge and experience on those. That is
> > > why
> > > > I was so interested in your experiments. And
> > > handling
> > > > of those rigs with crew of one or two persons may
> > > be
> > > > too much.
> > > >
> > > > But I guess it takes considerable amount of
> > > testing
> > > > and trial & error to get it right. I'm glad there
> > > are
> > > > others gathering experience and information too.
> > > >
> > > > Arto
> > > >
> > > > --- tsstproa <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Okay
> > > > > ****
> > > > >
> > > > > To judge performance at that scale would be way
> > > over
> > > > > my head at
> > > > > such a small scale. I use models for simply
> > > testing
> > > > > the effects of
> > > > > balance from sail COE positioned in diferent
> > > > > locations on different
> > > > > hull type proa configurations. To which will
> > > give
> > > > > best forward drive
> > > > > with least amount of effort and best helm
> > > balance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rig types for specific proa configurations.
> > > > > I see in model test on harry type configuration
> > > > > (Meaning low draft
> > > > > hulls with weight to windward using deep
> > > boards)a
> > > > > better more narrow
> > > > > windward performance range from The easy rig
> > > > > compared to the crab
> > > > > claw rigged on the same harry type model. But I
> > > > > think thats only due
> > > > > to the easy rigs placement of the rigs COE being
> > > > > back further and
> > > > > relying on the single replaced longer rear board
> > > to
> > > > > counter sail
> > > > > force. Same harry type model with claw balances
> > > with
> > > > > both boards
> > > > > down or with just the rear down. Crab claw rig
> > > had
> > > > > such netrual helm
> > > > > I had to set steering boards to make proa go up
> > > wind
> > > > > which it did
> > > > > well but needing input to do it with both boards
> > > > > down. Single board
> > > > > down cause just enough weather helm to get model
> > > up
> > > > > wind. But didnot
> > > > > seem as efficient as easy rig or as well as
> > > > > traditional hull proa
> > > > > configuration with crab claw rig.
> > > > >
> > > > > Notice in this video with harry type hull
> > > > > cinfiguration it is with
> > > > > the old shorter boards. The 85 sq'' orange claw
> > > sail
> > > > > balanced why
> > > > > better than the the 50 ish sq'' sail on the easy
> > > > > rig. with the easy
> > > > > rig you can see the extra bit of weight about
> > > 1/4 oz
> > > > > of sand on the
> > > > > rear of lwh to keep model from round up and back
> > > > > winding.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://youtube.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I guess the question would be how are you
> > > will to
> > > > > gain your
> > > > > performance.
> > > > >
> > > > > I personally think adapting modern technology to
> > > > > mimic tradtional
> > > > > methods in rigs felxablity. Is one way in
> > > advancing
> > > > > proa technology.
> > > > > look at clip below for an example.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://youtube.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the clip above: Thats a 45% larger sail area
> > > than
> > > > > the old 50ish
> > > > > sq'' easy rig sail on old shorter leeward hull
> > > with
> > > > > the old short
> > > > > baord sailing pretty balanced. Hope this gives
> > > you
> > > > > some idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look in photo's under Square Harry. for lwh
> > >
> > === message truncated ===
> >
>
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